-[theme music playing] -[Reese Witherspoon reading]
So fun. Whoo!
-Cheers! -Cheers!
Hi!
[Reese] I'm doing a show highlighting powerful,
ambitious women in different fields.
Let's go back to the top of the frame.
Okay, how did I do?
[Reese] And I would love to share with you
what makes these women so inspirational to me.
[gasps]
Love, Reese.
You won't find another person on planet Earth
that loves country music more than me.
Country music is one of those genres that has always been about real life,
and for, like, the real working people.
It's got heart.
I fucking love country music.
[country music playing]
♪ You, sir, looking down Looking up sideways ♪
♪ Telling me what you're gonna do ♪
♪ Back it up, pack it up Take it off, keep it off... ♪
[Reese] Singer-songwriter Kacey Musgraves
is quickly becoming one of Nashville's biggest stars.
At the 2013 Country Music Awards,
she won Best New Artist.
And her major label debut album, Same Trailer Different Park,
won two Grammys, including Best Country Album.
The Academy of Country Music agreed,
and named it album of the year.
She's shared the stage with some of country music's biggest stars.
But Kacey has definitely had her share of controversy
in the country music world.
She's just a true original in country music,
the way she dresses, the way she writes songs,
the way she doesn't care about people's opinions.
I think that is a really courageous place to be for a country artist.
[Reese] Hi!
Hi.
-[Reese] Oh, my God! -Get in.
Oh, my God, I was hoping you were gonna bring your microphone.
[with reverb] I don't go anywhere without this thing.
-I brought you a cappuccino. -Thanks.
-And hold on. -It's so much fun.
-Your famous sunglasses. -Dude!
-Those are my faves. -Guys, do I look like Kacey?
[laughs] They're as big as this car.
-So... -Oh, my God.
-Yay! -I'm so excited.
I know. Me, too. Let's just go on a little drive.
-In your hometown. -Just tootle. I know.
-I like it. -I'm so excited.
I know. It's kind of crazy you came on a snow day.
Y'all. It started snowing, and I was like,
-"Holy shit, it's so snowy." -Yeah, um...
[Kacey] Like, I don't really remember the last time Nashville had this much.
I do like to just, kind of, aimlessly drive around the city.
Like, especially if I'm listening to new mixes or something.
And sing into your karaoke microphone? [laughing]
Yeah. Annoy the hell out of everybody that knows me with it.
I can't stop. Like, it's an addiction.
Was it a Christmas gift?
Um, to myself.
I was a little buzzed, and I saw this thing.
It was like, "Gold karaoke mic, $35,"
and it was like, "You can sing karaoke anywhere," you know?
"Be a karaoke star!" And I was like, "This is for me."
So, I ordered it. I actually ordered two.
So, what you're saying is you bought me one.
-[laughing] -Yeah, yeah. It's at the house.
Kacey, how long have you lived in Nashville?
[Kacey] Well, let's see, it was the end of 2008,
-almost 2009, so... -Okay.
-What is that, like, ten years? -Ten years ago.
-Isn't that weird? Yeah. -You were 19.
[Kacey] Yeah, I was 19, about to turn 20.
-[Reese] You were 19! -And...
Did you think you were so smart and you knew it all?
Um...
-Or were you, like, scared... -Oops! There goes the mic.
I'm just gonna put that back there. Oh, so sorry.
-She just dropped the mic. -It'll be fine.
And I hit you in the head,
-so it's cool. This is going really well. -You dropped the mic.
[Reese] So you went from Golden,
-where you grew up... -Yes.
[Reese] ...which was, like, population 400.
[Kacey] Like, so small.
-So tiny. Then you move to Austin. -Tiny.
[Kacey] I did, yeah,
'cause Austin's about three-and-a-half or four hours from my hometown.
So, it was like just far enough to where, like,
my parents didn't freak out over me wanting to move there.
Right.
I left home when I was 17.
Do not mistake that for me saying
that I don't completely appreciate where I'm from.
It is humble, it is real, it is full of love.
Um, I love it so much.
And I have the utmost respect for where I came from,
and I'm very thankful for it.
But I always knew, no matter what, that I had to get out.
And I think that's really important, no matter where you're from.
I mean, if you grew up in the most affluent family
in the biggest city in the world, you know,
with the most money and the nicest cars,
like, you need to get out of that
to see another dimension of the world.
I got a gig at a booking agency.
I got to, like, advance shows for other artists,
and, I don't know, just call the news,
and, you know, print out riders and stuff like that.
And I was just like, "Man,
you know what, I just need to move to Nashville."
I really wanted to get into the, um, songwriting circle here.
It was the best move I've ever made.
I rented this house sight unseen,
and it was very interesting, I'll say that. Um...
Lots of characters, lots of stories. It just inspired lots of songs.
It was a really formidable time in my young-adult life,
-but I love it here. -It's so nice.
But you've probably seen it change, like, a crazy amount.
It's so crazy. But it's so good.
I love all the new energy,
-and people coming in. -Yeah.
It feels like it's much more open-minded than it used to be.
-Yeah. -'Cause when I was growing up,
I was like, "I am out of here, and I am never coming back."
-[Kacey] "Screw you!" -And now I'm like,
"Oh, I can't wait to come back and move into my house."
Oh, that's cute.
-I know. -Yeah.
-It's sweet. -[Kacey] That's really fun.
And there are some things that are old-school and really fun.
That just have stayed the same?
Yeah, like kids just with cardboard boxes that they're going sledding...
-Yeah. -On their cardboard box. [chuckles]
That's so cute.
-Obviously, we're on Music Row right now. -[Reese] Okay.
[Kacey] Still a lot going on here.
-[Reese] On Music Row... -[Kacey] Uh-huh.
[Reese] Do people really come down here?
And is this where they sign their contracts?
-Is this where they go write music? -This is where...
I would say the hub of the Nashville industry is as far as, like...
Where am I going? I can't...
I don't know. There is Belmont over there.
-Yep. -You're on Wedgewood now.
-Yep. -We're headed towards Hillsboro Village.
Cute little shops. But where is, like...
-Wait, what are we looking for? -Church Street.
Why can't I ever think of where to go when I want to frigging go there?
Church Street. Well, Pancake Pantry's over there.
[Kacey] Yes, we'll go over to the east side, which is where I live.
It's a cute little part of town.
I got a house there last year,
and just been working on it, fixing it up.
And you just got married.
-[Kacey] Yes, I did. -[Reese] Congratulations.
[Kacey] Yeah, it's two months in.
We haven't killed each other. Yet.
-[Reese] Great. -So, you know, we've made it a long way.
-[laughs] -Um...
Do you think the first year is the hardest? You don't.
-Haven't gotten to the second year yet. -[Kacey] Well, I'm in it.
But also, my first year, we're gonna be gone from each other.
-Like, touring. -Wow.
We're gonna have to figure out how to make that work.
I'll be on the bus a lot next year,
which is why I wanna get a bus dog.
-[laughs] -I really do.
What's a bus dog? Like, is that a particular kind of dog?
[Kacey] Just something, like, really chill,
that would be a fun little companion on the road.
Um, I don't even know where I'm going.
I have no idea where you're going. [laughing]
Now, we're in, like, the industrial, weird part. Sorry about that.
Well, I've never gone down to Charlotte.
-No, there's Church Street! -This is Church Street. Yes!
See, I knew. [laughs]
[Reese] When you first came out here,
did you already know people, songwriters here and stuff?
I knew a couple.
Radney Foster was one who's like a big deal in Texas.
He kind of took me under his wing,
and his family would cook me dinner.
Do you remember a moment that was, like, your breakthrough moment?
So, my little sister took my photo,
and my mom helped me put this little demo CD together.
And I have a really chubby face. And, um... Yeah.
I just took it around to all these publishing companies,
and I was like, "Hey, I'm a new voice in town,
if you need a demo singer.
I need the cash, and I can sing my own harmonies,
and also, these are songs I wrote."
So, it was like killing two birds with one stone.
It's a very word-of-mouth town, as you know.
-Everybody knows everybody. -Yes.
How many years before it kind of clicked for you?
Mmm, I'd say...
-Five. But I mean, like... -Five?
I was a songwriter first, before being an artist,
so about a year after being in town was when I got to write for a job.
And then I just wrote for, like, three years,
every single day with different people. It is very intimidating.
But also, because it's so intimidating,
and because there's so many people that are in line,
wanting to do what you want to do,
you have no excuse not to be unique and as good as you can be.
-[Reese] You have a new album. -[Kacey] I do.
-I'm so excited. -I'm so pumped!
It's called Golden Hour,
and it's really representative of this really pretty time in my life right now.
Um, just like, the end my 20s, you know?
Getting married, and meeting the right person,
and him, like, just completely changing and opening up my world.
I mean, I always write about real life,
but I've never written love songs ever.
'Cause I've always been like, "Those are cheesy."
Like, I do not relate to that.
-And it sounds so emo, but... -[laughing] Yeah.
I just haven't really related to it. So, um...
-This album's a lot different. -Wow.
It's kind of Bee Gees inspired a little bit.
-In some ways, Sade a little bit. -Really? Mmm.
Maybe some Neil Young thrown in there, but it's still me.
I think when people hear it,
they'll just be like, "Oh, this is just a different color,
-a different side." -Yeah.
When I was little, I wanted to be a country music singer.
You did?
-Did I ever tell you that? -No, I love that.
I wanted to be Dolly.
When I was six, I was like, "I want to be Dolly."
And so, then, I would go to acting class,
and I would go to singing lessons,
and I worked so hard at it.
And then, one time, I was 13 years old,
and I went to this acting-singing camp.
There were probably 100 of us.
And I got up, and I started singing something,
I can't remember what it was.
They were like, "You! You! You!
Stop! Stop! Stop!"
[laughing]
Amazing!
"Your singing... Your singing is awful."
-I wish I had the microphone. -I know. Seriously.
-Like, tap-tap. -"Can you go straight to the monologue?
Straight to the monologue."
So, then I do the monologue,
and I always won the monologue competition,
and I'd always lose the singing competition.
Oh, man!
When I had to go do Walk the Line, I was terrified.
'Cause it's really something
that you have to build your vocal cords, you have to really practice, and like...
-I'm so... -Yeah.
Everybody who criticizes any singer,
or any painter, or any artist, or photographer,
I'm like, "Just try it."
[Kacey] I know.
[Reese] "Follow Your Arrow" was one of my favorite songs.
Oh, thanks.
It was, like, one of the first times I heard a country song
that talked about things like smoking weed or alternative lifestyles.
-Like, it's okay to be gay. -Right. Right.
Did you get pushback from anybody on that?
-Or was it hard with country radio? -Um, definitely.
It was... Yeah, it was very hard.
I had the idea saved for a while,
and I even went to write with Katy Perry for her own album, not even for me.
And I brought her the idea, and I was like,
"Look, I have this idea. It's called 'Follow Your Arrow.'
I just think it could be so cool."
And I sang this little piece that I had worked out, the chorus, basically.
And she was like, "Dude, I love that,
but it honestly sounds like something that you should say.
-You should save it for yourself." -Right.
So, I'm really glad she said that, and I was like, "Okay."
So, I saved it, and I went back to Nashville,
and ended up finishing it with two of my really good friends,
Shane McAnally and Brandy Clark.
I just loved it so much,
and it was kind of an unintentional anthem.
I had to go in to the label and be like,
"Hey, I wrote this song last minute, and here it is.
I want to put this on this album, and I'm really excited about it.
What do you think?"
And they were like, "Well, um, you know, probably people are gonna hate it.
Like, you're gonna go down kind of in flames in the country world."
And I was like, "Look, I'm fine with that," you know?
-This is something I want to say, and... -Yeah.
There's, like, all kinds of country people out there, you know?
-Yeah. -I mean, like...
There's not just a certain group of people
that, you know, we need to be singing about or singing to.
I mean, it's everybody, and I think about, you know,
the kids that I grew up with or, um...
You know, these little kids in these small towns
that are just coming to terms with all that...
-Mmm-hmm. -And are freaked the hell out,
because they don't know how to tell their parents or, like, whatever.
And they've never heard a mainstream person say that's okay.
Especially in that genre.
I mean, I can probably count on one hand
the number of times that I met someone who I knew was gay, growing up.
-We didn't talk about it, growing up. -Yeah. Oh, my gosh.
And it wasn't like my family was shut down about it,
-but it was just, nobody talked about it. -Right.
Which is another form of being shut down about it.
It's always made me feel a little bit guilty
that even in high school,
I wouldn't say that I, like, ever,
me, myself, like, made fun of someone that was gay.
I can just think of this one guy in particular.
I didn't stand up for him when everyone was making fun of him.
-Yeah. -I mean, I kinda laughed, too.
But I truly learned from my mistakes, and who I was,
and got really, like, loud and proud
about just trying to set my own record straight.
I love that. You know what? All you can do is say,
"I've made a mistake. I'm a human being.
-And I learn." -Yeah.
If you go back to the roots of country music,
and look at Willie Nelson, or Hank Williams,
or Jimmy Rogers or whatever, they were singing about real shit that...
-Yes. -You know, divorce and heartbreak.
Johnny Cash sang at Folsom Prison.
-Exactly. Yeah. -I mean, he was singing about outlaws.
I mean, country music is supposed to be for real people.
-And so, I just had to... -Yeah.
I felt like I had to kind of just remind everybody about that,
and be like, "I'm just doing my job as a songwriter,
by taking these things that really inspire me
and injecting them into my songs.
And you can like it or you don't like it. You can follow your arrow or not."
I think it's so great,
and it just sort of blew open a bigger conversation
about what is country music and what is modern country.
Exactly.
Although, I saw somebody tweeted you something so mean
-the other day. -So mean.
Hold on, I have to read this tweet, because it is so mean.
I'm not gonna say what her name was,
because she doesn't deserve to have her name read.
She said, "Your one of the reasons true country is sinking
into the cesspool of immorality and stomach-turning fake entertainment.
You've got to perform half-naked
to make up for your lack of God-given talent."
And what you wrote was...
-I corrected her grammar. -[chuckles]
You wrote, "It's you're, with an apostrophe-R-E."
[Kacey] That's all you can say to somebody like that.
But then, also, I was seeing this really beautiful interview that you gave
about how you looked out in the audience,
and you were singing "Follow Your Arrow,"
and two men were hugging themselves,
-and you're like... -Yes.
-"I... I'm part of them feeling okay." -Yay. They can feel safe.
They can feel safe at my shows, and I love that so, so much.
[Reese] That's incredible.
Everyone's entitled to their own beliefs,
but as long as that includes just loving everyone,
that's all I care about.
When you have somebody like Kacey pushing the boundaries
of what is acceptable topics in country music,
I think you're gonna open new doors for people to say,
"Oh, okay, yeah. Well, Kacey did that,
so I'm gonna take it to the next step."
And I think, in art, you know, you gotta push the boundaries of things,
otherwise culture doesn't evolve.
-[Reese] This is awesome. Hi! -[bartender] Hey, guys, how are you?
-How are you? -Wonderful.
-Oh, my gosh, it's so nice to be inside. -[Kacey] I know.
This is what my mother does.
[with strong Southern twang] What is the Chocolate Covered Banana?
-[Kacey laughs] -Well, let me tell you.
It has rum, it's a tiki drink.
-She goes, "I'm not gonna have that." -[Kacey laughing]
-[bartender] Okay. Perfect. -What is the Apple Old Fashioned?
Ah! One part apple brandy and one part bourbon.
I'm not gonna have that.
[laughing] Okay.
I actually do wanna try the Apple Old Fashioned.
-That sounds really good. -[bartender] I can do that.
[Kacey] Thanks.
-Yes. -Cheers.
Yay! Cheers!
-Thanks for having me. -Shine on, you little bright diamond.
Thank you, thank you. Maybe a rhinestone, but it's fine.
That's my favorite Dolly quote.
Love that. Or like, "If you want the rainbow,
you gotta put up with a little bit of rain."
-Yes! -Like... Okay. Wow.
She just keeps coming up with the zingers.
She's like a guru. Yeah, it's crazy.
Do you have goals that you wanna achieve?
Mmm-hmm. I just wanna stay authentic to myself, whatever that means.
Just sound the way I wanna sound and make the records that I wanna make.
I would rather have less fans that really know what I'm about,
than, like, massive amount of fans
that have this watered down or fake idea of what I am.
That would drive me crazy.
I guess that's been my one compass.
I've even had grown businessmen,
that are very successful in this industry, say,
"Why don't you do this or that or whatever?"
And I'm like, "I don't really wanna do that."
And they're like, "Well, you know, sometimes, you just...
You gotta do things for business that you're not really proud of."
This is, like, a kind of influential person in this industry.
-Wow. -I won't name names, but...
And I was like, you know, that's like...
-That's a huge difference. -You mean like showing up for an event,
or doing a photoshoot you didn't feel good about, or...
Um, it was in regards to changing some lyrics.
Okay.
And I was just like, "I don't feel comfortable doing that."
-Yeah. -First of all...
Like, I don't find what I'm saying offensive.
But, um...
Anyway, it would send the wrong message. Like, I'm the "Follow Your Arrow" girl.
At the end of the day... Like, somebody said something
really inspiring to me, like
"Nobody cares more about your career than you."
-Yeah. -Right?
-Totally. -So...
I mean, do you run into that? Like...
I mean, now you're at the point where, like,
you can probably just do whatever you want,
and people are like, "This is her."
But, I mean, I would imagine that, like,
coming up in this industry or in that industry,
you probably ran into that a lot,
where they're like, "Hey, do this thing."
And you're like, "I mean, I don't really..."
Yeah. I did a lot of stuff where I would, like...
I would not pose in certain magazines
'cause I thought they would really... Really belittled women.
And they really objectified women in a way
that I didn't feel like that was helpful to my career,
and I got a lot of shit for it when I was young.
But I also had a whole thing
where I wouldn't play anybody's girlfriend when I was young.
-Interesting. -I did it in a couple of movies,
and I was like, you know, "If I have an opportunity
to be the star of my own movie, why wouldn't I?"
But also, I don't...
I want little girls out there
to know they can be the stars of their own movie.
It's scary. You're taking the risk.
-If it flops, it's all on you. -Yeah.
-And it's terrifying. -Mmm-hmm.
And you could mitigate your risk
by standing next to a really super-famous dude.
And being like "Well..." Yeah.
But I just said, "You know what?
I don't care, because I really want...
I really want little girls to see themselves,
to see a spectrum of female experience and female behavior,
-and I'm willing to take the risk." -Yeah.
And it paid off, but I didn't know if it was gonna pay off.
-Yeah. -And I did a bunch of movies like...
I did some movies that I'm really proud of,
and then I have some movies that I'm like,
-"Ooh! That was a real stinker." [laughs] -Like, "Wait a minute."
-Well, that's okay. -And people go, "I love that movie."
-I'm like, "Oh, it's a real bad movie." -Damn.
-That's so funny, though. -But you know what?
Back to what we were saying,
I have respect for people who just put themselves out there.
'Cause there's a lot of people who aren't even willing to try.
Yeah. This is very true. They're just scared.
There's a fear in that.
"We don't wanna offend anyone."
-Especially if you're a female. -Right.
"We don't wanna offend anyone. You gotta sing about, like, this.
You have to have this kind of tempo or whatever,
and just kind of make everyone pseudo like you.
And then you can put edgier stuff out there."
And I'm like, "Okay, well, that's bait-and-switch."
-Right. -Like, you're tricking people.
And it sounds so damn cliché,
but really, truly, only going with your gut
is the best compass that you can work with. I mean...
Someone that has always inspired me,
for damn sure, it would be Loretta Lynn.
She had big ol' giant balls.
Big ol' country balls, and she got banned from radio stations,
and she constantly wrote about things like birth control pills,
or like, whatever it was that at the time was like,
"Oh, no, you can't really talk about that."
But she was like, "I'm gonna write all this anyway.
This is my female experience,
and this is real life." Like, "Deal with it."
It's so freeing when you're just yourself,
and you just own up to it.
And if anybody likes it, you're like, "Thank you for liking it."
I know, and it makes you appreciate those people more.
-You know? -Totally.
In this day and age, like,
everything is just so heated and polarized and crazy.
Do you think country music is gonna catch up
with what's going on in the world?
-I think it's on its way. -Yeah.
I think there will always be outliers that are conservative or close-minded.
And that's... Seriously, that's so fine,
-as long as we can include everyone. -Right.
I don't know, but I think it's getting better.
-Yeah. -I hope.
But then, you know, you look at the chart,
and you see a very big lack in female voices.
-So you're like, "Is it?" -Right.
[Reese] And diversity.
Exactly. Yeah.
There's a whole spectrum of the human experience that is not represented.
Exactly.
I was reading. I think it was 2015,
where some country commentator on country music was like,
"Don't play as many women's songs."
-Mmm-hmm. -And he's like,
"The men are like lettuce in the salad,
and the women are the tomatoes in the salad."
I happen to love tomatoes.
But, I mean, if you look at the top, you know, 40...
-Yeah. -...you might see three women.
And one thing that I've experienced as a woman on this path
is that I could be meeting the same radio station people,
or people in the industry that a man is, a male artist,
and there's an extra pressure on me to be accommodating and nice,
and like, you know, massage their ego.
And when I don't come through on whatever their idea is of that,
then I feel like my music suffers from that,
-as in, how far it will go on the radio. -Right.
It's just interesting, 'cause they would never do that to a male artist.
In fact, they're like, "Oh, he acts like he's a badass.
You know, he doesn't care, you know, we love him."
This is what they do in my business, too.
Like, they say, "Oh, well, women's movies don't do as well."
How can you evaluate that
when they don't make as many women's movies?
That's true. And...
So, how are we to have the opportunity
-to have the same success? -Yeah, it's not a fair opportunity.
Label people, or, you know, radio people will say,
"Well, our listeners, they just, you know, they don't wanna hear women.
You know, they want to hear more men."
It's like, "Well, what? Who are you polling?"
-Right. -I don't really believe that.
I think there should be room for everybody,
and everyone should be given a chance,
especially because there's a crop of people that are coming up
that actually have something to say,
and they're not just big hair and a pretty face,
which is fine. I'm just saying.
It's about substance.
It's not just about, like, the aesthetics.
Yeah. That doesn't really affect my creativity or whatever.
I just kind of try to stay in my own lane, but it is there.
And it's very much a real thing, so...
And then you just push forward. That's all you can do.
-Yeah. -What would Dolly do?
She'd hold up her rhinestone middle finger and just be like,
-"I don't care." -[laughing] Yeah.
-"I'm just gonna keep doing it." -Mmm-hmm. Yep.
Not only with social media and this world changing like crazy,
I just feel like people are craving something really real.
So, hopefully, what people get when they hear my music is just me,
and I only know how to write about things that I, firsthand, have gone through,
and I know I'm not alone in all these things that I'm feeling and going through.
So, ultimately,
you're gonna attract, hopefully, people that are like, "Dude,
yes, I'm going through that, too."
Like, "Yeah, same. I'm not alone."
And it's like... That's why music is so uniting.
I'm waiting for the day that there's a gay country music icon.
Can you imagine a fucking rhinestone cowboy...
-That'd be amazing. -...that sings amazing, and looks amazing,
and is like a total hero for...
-Being open. -Being open and being yourself.
I'm just waiting for that day.
-It'll happen. -Yeah.
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